Find Your Stoke in Hard Work and Harder Play, from Consulting to Ice Climbing | David Hardin
What makes you feel alive? What makes you feel like a kid again? For David, the answer to both is "stoke," the secret ingredient to adventure. David embodies "work hard, play hard" in every area of his life, and invites others into the surprising joys of challenging play. His definition of play will motivate and mobilize you regardless of experience level.
Songs that inspire David to play:
-
David Hardin is the Co-Founder and COO of Lendrose, as well as a small business consultant and exit advisor with Cultivate Advisors, and a TACFIT personal trainer. He also juggles multiple extreme sports as an Arc’teryx athlete and trainer, including ice climbing and surfing. David is based in Chicago, his lifelong home.
-
MM: David, to me, you are the perfect embodiment of "work hard, play hard." People toss that phrase around a lot, but you, to the max on both sides, work hard, play hard. Love that about you. I would love to explore both sides of that of you, starting with the play hard side, okay?
DH: My favorite.
MM: Everyone’s favorite! So I know that your primary sports currently, ice climbing, surfing, right? Both of these feel like they are seasonal in a way. Talk to me about the seasons of play. What are you doing in different seasons and different times of the year?
DH: Right on. First off, thank you, I appreciate this. I try to find something every season, you know, it just sometimes doesn't work out. I was climbing somewhere that obviously that's very seasonal, right? You know, I got to go up to U.P. Michigan or we just had Starved Rock a couple weeks ago. And so winter time here in Chicago, there's not much to do. And for 15, 20 years, I refuse to accept that. I refuse to be one of the ones that just sits in a bar all the time. I'm like, nah, I got to adventure. So, you know, usually I'm traveling to go somewhere. But here, the ice climbing, being able to go do that, get on some frozen waterfalls. If you've never seen it, it's really cool.
MM: Is that like the Pictured Rocks?
DH: Yep. We go to Pictured Rocks, you know, 60 foot frozen waterfalls, you know, 40 feet diameter and you're climbing up and it's it's pretty wicked.
MM: Dude I saw the video of that (sorry to interrupt) the video of you doing that on your Instagram with the just the raw audio of the wind oh yeah the 360 cam and seeing the Lake Superior behind you it blew me away.
DH: I have one of those is my pinned stories because it's such a cool video because you can see the raw power. That was Lake Superior and those were six to eight foot waves Crashing with you know 50 mile per hour winds as we're climbing the ice the frozen waterfall on that.
MM: It's pretty awesome. I mean, I got to imagine that has to be one of the most alive feelings you could ever experience.
DH: Yeah, and I try to share that, you know, and one thing maybe we'll talk about at some point, but I have just as much passion for doing the sport, doing the activity. I actually think I have more passion with bringing others and watching them experience it, right? So like ice climbing, for example, I've introduced 166 or 167 people ice climbing for the first time. It's something I want to share and so, you know, I'll lead one of my trips, I'll guide one of the trips and I will, I'll get a handful of climbs in, but I'm enjoying watching everybody else experience and see that smile on their face, right? I wish I could say the same for surfing in the wintertime. Not many people want to do it. A lot of people say they want to do it, but when it comes to it, surf here in Lake Michigan typically is a winter sport. Every once in a while we get lucky with some, you know, couple waves in June and September, but mainly it's wintertime, you know, and so I would, it's grown for sure over the last couple years. We got a WhatsApp chat, there's a couple hundred people on there, but if it's less than 50 degrees outside, that group of a couple hundred maybe goes down to like 50 and then if it's below 30 degrees, that group of 50 maybe goes down to like 20, you know, and then, you know, you have a couple screws loose to get out in that, you know, freezing cold water. You know, I think the coldest I've ever been was Kirk and I, we were surfing 57th Street Beach over by the museum campus, Museum of Science and Industry. And it was like 50 mile per hour winds and we surf and it gets dark out and you're wearing a six, five millimeter wetsuit and the wind's blowing and there's nowhere to, you're trying to take off our wetsuit. It sucks, but you're catching great waves and you don't realize that there's actually great waves on the Great Lakes, you know, and so when we show pictures, you know, when I show pictures of people like, no, wait, that looks like Hawaii, you're like, no, that's, that's actually Sheboygan or Whiting, you know.
MM: Let me just recap what I just heard. You're talking winter surfing at night in Lake Michigan. I mean, all of that combined is just incredibly extreme and doing it in Chicago, in the city limits of Chicago.
DH: Yes, that's what we're trying to do is more fun stuff in the city. You know, and then I got to travel everywhere for everything else. You go to Puerto Rico every November. We go all, you know, we're just, we went to Hawaii two years in a row and had, you know, surf in Hanalei Bay and just, next thing you know, nine hours went by. Because it's so warm and it's so nice out and Jess is just chilling on the beach, reading a book and to be able to just do that, yeah, so the, I dive as well, you know, so all the diving, just as long as I'm in the, as long as I'm doing something. Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm 43 years old and I'm taking up skateboarding. Amazing. I was never a skateboarder. I was a baseball and football player, you know, in track and field and those board sports just weren't my focus. And so every single time that I skateboard or even get on my one wheel, I noticed my surfing improves, you know? And so now it's like, all right, I want to get on a skateboard. I don't care about doing kick flips and drift. I want to get the bull and just carve because that's surfing on land basically, you know? So yeah, the more and more I can just have fun and act like a kid and just do things that get me going, that's, I don't want to sit in an office all day. I don't want to sit at a bar and just drink every weekend. Like I want to go do things, you know, and have more and more adventures.
MM: It's incredible. I'm really struck by the number of people that you said you gather to do some of these climbing. Introduce, did you say 160 new people?
DH: Yeah, like 166, 167 last time I checked.
MM:I know that you partner with Arc’teryx as well, and that's probably part of this program. But how are you finding these people? What's the invitation that you're extending to someone?
DH: It's a mix. A lot of referral-based, you know, people will see my posts, friends will see my posts, you know, and be like, ah, I'd love to do that one time. Like, a couple of my surf buddies, Florida, Georgia, California, they've always seen me doing this and finally they're like, okay, I'm ready to do it. You know, and so it was really cool to have, you know, a Florida and a California guy come up to the U.P., freezing cold, climbing frozen waterfalls when these are guys I'm usually surfing in warm weather with, you know. So a lot of that with Arc’teryx will do like a quarterly event to where I'm doing some sort of event at the store just to bring people and educate them that there's more to do in the Chicagoland area besides go to the bar and drink. And so it's a mix of those things and then, you know, any of the rock climbers that I hang out with, you know, I'll always ask them like, hey, have you ever considered ice climbing? And usually the answer is no. Usually the answer is, yeah, that seems too hard. And my response always is, it's actually quite beginner friendly, especially if you're using, you know, someone like a guy like me to show you how to do it. And my trips are all inclusive as well. Like I set up everything. You just show up. Like when I say all inclusive, like I cook all the meals, I prep everything, I get the house, I get everything and all you do is just show up and climb. We teach you how to climb. Yeah, so it's a lot of fun. And I also tell people, I don't know if you remember Steve Brown, but he's mid-60s. You know, he's a bigger guy. He's like six, four, six, five. He's maybe like two 50s stocking. He ice climbs. He's been on like three trips with me, you know? So when people are like, oh, you got to be in great shape. You got to be this massive athlete. I'm like, you don't. And then you know me, I do a good job of bringing community together. You just have the parties at my house. So like that's another passion. I love it.
MM: I mean, that's so cool. So people are seeing what you're doing, they're seeking you out, but you're also, you're making that invitation. I got to imagine some folks have thought, ice climbing, that seems totally unattainable. It's something that, you know, you have to travel to the Arctic to do. You know, like, no, this is actually, we can do this in the Midwest. Yeah, we can do this in Michigan. And it's really cool. So on the, on the seasonal idea, going back to that a little bit. I love that you are keeping yourself busy, you're around, you're always finding something that energizes you and really inviting people along with you. Do different seasons also come with different mindsets for you as the activities change? Does the mindset change as well?
DH: Absolutely. The more extreme, the more cold. Yeah. Yeah, you got to have that mindset. You got to have that, you know, the older I get, the more it's, I have this work versus reward ratio. Okay. You know, so for example, I have not surfed the lakes under 20 degrees air temp in a couple of years. Wow. Because if I'm going to freeze my balls off, if I'm going to get that cold, there better be some decent waves, right? But typically in the last couple of years, it's been very mushy. You know, so when you look at the waves, you're like, if I didn't have access to waves like I do, I'd be out there in a heartbeat. But I spent an entire month in Puerto Rico every November. I go, I'm heading out to California tomorrow and I'm going for business, but then I usually get to get a couple of surf sessions in, right? So I have access to warmer weather waves. But yeah, you got to get in this mindset of, are you willing to do the hard thing to have fun?
I don't know if you've ever heard of the term “type-two fun.”
MM: No.
DH: Okay. Type-two fun. I even thought about getting the tattoo. It says type two, but it's also like people think diabetic or something. It's always like a blood type. No, this is my fun type. Type-two fun definition of is while you're doing it, and ideally you're with people, you can do it by yourself, but while you're in the moment, you're like, oh my gosh, this is hard. Why did I sign up for this? This sucks. This is brutal. You're trekking through the mountains and it's wind gusts and it's difficult, but when you look back on that, you're like, oh my gosh, that was such a great day or that was such a great time, right? You bond with your friends who you're with. You bond over the difficulties that you're able to achieve together, right? And so there's a lot more type two fun in the wintertime versus other, just strictly because weather.
MM: This fun framework system is really intriguing to me. How many other types are there?
DH:I have no idea. I really don't think type one is my type. That's all I need. Exactly. Exactly. Right.
MM: That gives me an idea of just thinking about how there's different frameworks. And we talk about personality types, and there's the Enneagram, and the Myers-Briggs, and the StrengthsFinder, and there's different types. And, you know, personality traits can be somewhat nature and nurture. They can be fluid as well. But a fun type is interesting because you have a little more autonomy to lean in and choose so long as you can cultivate that mindset to say, okay, there is a relationship here between work and play. But if you're willing to work, the play is enhanced. Exactly. Okay.
DH: OK, I'll tell you a real quick story. I mentioned my buddy Kirk. First time he came ice climbing with us. We were climbing only on Friday and Saturday. And Friday, the conditions were miserable. On the trail, if you stepped six inches off the trail, you were going down hip in snow. The snow was so deep in fresh powder. The winds were blowing like crazy. It was miserable. We had, I think, a three-mile hike just to get to the climbs. So by the time we get there, everyone's pretty miserable. This sucks. The climbing was great, but again, it was a tough day. So and Kirk, I apologize for calling you out, but it's a good story. That night, he's like, yeah, he goes, I don't think I'm going to go tomorrow. I think I'm just going to chill at the house and relax. And I'm like, no, man, trust me. Today was not the typical day. It's usually not that hard. Just come on, trust me. Go with us the next day. The weather's supposed to be better. Wake up. He was still, eh, I don't know. I was able to convince him to go. And the weather was great. We had a great time, and he loved it to where he pretty much come back every year now. So you have to get in that mindset. And if you don't, if you don't have somebody to help you get in that mindset, he might have missed out. And again, he is a mainstay. He's one of my regulars on this trip now. He enjoys it so much. And not only that, my trips, it's 50% the adventure of what we're doing, and it's 50% hanging out with the community, hanging out at the house and playing board games and getting to know each other and staying up till 2 AM. As long as you can bring your adventure, because I know adventure junkies, I wouldn't consider myself an adventure junkie. Like, I'm an adventure chaser for sure. But I don't have this addiction, this shake, like, oh my gosh, I need to get out there. I have that to where I need to go take a trip and relax from work, but I don't need to go taking crazy risks. I want to spend time with community. If you were to ask me, hey, you want to go ice climbing by yourself today, sure. You want to go in and do it tomorrow for the next couple days, I'd rather do it with people. So there's a mix of that there, but I think you have to lean out of community to get out of your comfort zone.
MM: Yeah, absolutely. Are there any other instances you can think of where someone in the community, you've had an opportunity to show them something new or help them get familiar with year in a new way, conquer some kind of fear and make a new core memory?
DH: Surfing Lake Michigan, it really is that one there. You get a lot of people here in the city who have never surfed. You know, it's one thing when you have somebody who moves from California to Chicago for work and they know how to surf. They're used to salt water versus fresh water, but it's not that hard of a transition. We have a lot of people that have just never surfed before. You know, and they've always seen it. And there's this romanticism about surfing. You know, whenever I see like a beer commercial and you see people surfing a wave or rock climbing, and I usually look at those commercials, I'm like, first off, it's pretty cool that I do all that stuff, you know? It's pretty awesome. You're like, wait, I actually do that. Nobody is. You know, goal achieved. But a lot of people see that and they say, oh, I wish that could be me, you know? And then they see, oh, David Hardin does that stuff. You know, let me ask him about it. And if anybody ever asks, if you ever, anybody whatsoever, my response is always gonna be, yeah, come on out. We got extra wetsuits, we got surfboards, I got climbing gear. We get everything. If you truly are interested, all are welcome. And willing to do the work. You know, because sometimes I have to get in the lake and, you know, I'll have to no surfboard and just kind of, you know, paddle with them and push them into the wave and get them comfortable, you know, like all those things. Yeah, we had another friend, Taylor Phelan, you remember him? Taylor came out one time and never came back because it was just too cold. Yeah. But he had a great time. Yeah. I gave him all the credit in the world to actually like try it out. Trent Minor was another one. Years ago, we brought Trent out there and, you know, Trent grew up in California and came out one time and never came out again because it was just, it was a little too cold. But he still has that memory. He still has that experience, you know? And, you know, it's not for everyone, but if you could find that stoke. Yeah. I gotta, I'm not addicted to the stoke, but I need more stoke in my life, right? If I'm sitting in an office all day long, I'm being tortured.
MM: How would you define “stoke” as well?
DH: Acting like a kid, having fun. I was just at Disney a couple of weeks ago with some friends and colleagues and never a Disney person, and went there and was able to get in the mindset of acting like a kid. So I was at, we went to Hollywood Studios, and I was there when I was like 12 years old. And a flood of memories came back. And I told one of my buddies who's a Disney person, and I was like, dude, I get it. I get it, right? So I was able to get in that mindset and enjoy it, right? That's plenty. You know, I don't need to be doing something that adventures are extreme. I prefer that. But as long as I could go out there and just feel like a kid again, as long as I got there and feel like I'm having fun adventuring, the more and more I get it.
MM: Does that mindset of kind of seeking to rekindle that kid feeling ever come in conflict with organizing and coaching and you know kind of being in a leadership role?
DH: Yeah, 100%. When I ice climbed Starved Rock a couple weeks ago that was not one of my trips. I got invited by some mutual friends that I've never climbed with before and it was the first time I've ever ice climbed where I wasn't guiding the trip. And I got to sit back and let them set up the ropes and the anchors and let them do everything and climb as much as I want and I was like, this is kind of nice. Oh, this is what I've been missing? Did it make me want to do that more? A little bit. I love hosting, I love guiding, I love bringing other people to it, but I do think I'm going to try to seek out more opportunities to where somebody else is leading and just experience and enjoy. Yeah. Because you've seen it. It's been a long time, but when we lived in the West Loop, when we're having a party, I'm always cooking and serving everything else. I enjoy that. I had a really big birthday party here because I had a lot of family who have never seen the house because of Covid and I recognize that. My birthday two years ago, I had a ton of family come and I was nonstop cooking and grilling and smoking meats and making cocktails and everything else. And I had a handful of people who were like, will you relax? Will you just enjoy your birthday? I'm like, I am enjoying my birthday. This is what I enjoy. But it is nice to be able to sit back and just let somebody else do it from time to time.
MM: I feel I feel this a lot when I'm gathering people for any kind of experience to whether it's we're taking a trip together Or we're going to a concert together and when I've gathered people I feel that similar Joy when I see people connecting especially when I can invite people along who may not necessarily know each other and then I see them Connecting I just like sit back and just be a proud dad. We're just watching that to me is enriching Sometimes even more so than participating in the activity directly.
DH: Yeah, you get it So, yeah, I appreciate that a lot and I resonate with you also saying and they still need to be able to receive as well And to give and receive go hand-in-hand. Yeah, you the more you receive the more filled up you are to give back. I'm starting to learn that I don't have that balance dialed in yet. For a long time, the balance has definitely been way more I am guiding and hosting and a little bit less here. But I'm starting to transition and everything in my life, I'm always trying to learn balance. And I think that's the next piece of balance I'm trying to learn is, okay, well, how much can I actually just enjoy and kick back and relax and not feel? A great analogy is a bonfire. I am. We see a lot of memes. There's always that one kid. It's always, you know, stoking bonfire and maintaining. That's me. All right. I love the visual fire as well. Yeah, right? You know? So you get it, right? And it's rare that even if it's somebody else's fire, there's times when I see something I just have to fiddle and make it better. And I'm learning to just be like, no, just enjoy it. Just relax. So I'm still, you know, we're always learning. And that's one thing I'm still trying to learn is that balance.
MM: We have a fire pit in our yard, and so when my wife and I will sit out there, she will sometimes say to me, why don't you just sit for a little? We don't need to keep rearranging the blocks. They're actually good. Yeah, right? Just let them burn. I'll be like, I want to burn things, I want to rebuild. OK, so balance. You are juggling a lot of things. You are an athlete and facilitator and trainer in many areas of sports and activity. And you're juggling multiple businesses, which are all happening in parallel. They're all active and thriving in the same time. First question before we get into any of that, what does rest look like for you in between all of this? And when are you resting? When do you sleep?
DH: I'm a good sleeper, first off. We act like old people. We're eating dinner at like 5, 5:30 at night, and then we're in bed. If we're watching a movie and it ends at 8.45, we were like, let's just start our night, let the dogs out, everything else. So I'm in bed by 9.30 at the latest. I'm sleeping by 10 o'clock every night. So I definitely sleep as Paramount. I've learned that over the years. If you're not optimizing sleep, everything is just going to fall to the wayside. There's that saying, you sleep when you die. I hate that saying. It's like, no, no, no. You don't understand how important sleep is, especially with optimizing your hormones, which affect everything. Right. I do find the weekends where I sometimes just have to just, you know, look at Jess, I'm like, hey, let's just order out. Let's just relax and do nothing, you know? And I find I have to do that every once in a while. Just this past Saturday, I got a buddy, one of my really close buddies, he's a town from London. And he was living here, but he moved to London, and he's back just for a little bit. We're crossing over a while. He's in town, and I'm in town. And Saturday during the day, I'm doing work. I'm finishing the basement. And I'm like, I really don't want to go out Saturday night. And we're just going for pizza. We weren't going out. I'm like, I really don't want to do that. And all of a sudden, I'm like, no, wait a minute. I don't see my buddy very often. You know, he's somebody who shows up. I got to go show up. Right. And so sometimes I have to fight that urge to just sit back and relax. Yeah. But I have to get my recharge. I talk for a living. I'm literally advising clients. And everything that I do, I talk for a living. And there are times where I have friends who want to call me at 6:00 at night, 6:30 at night, and I have to apologize. I'm like, guys, I've been talking all day long. I love talking, but I need to find that rest. So I think I do a good job of peppering in rest when I need rest. And if it builds up, then I need to go take a trip. And I ask Jess every once in a while, I'll be like, hey, do you mind if I go down to Florida or go out to California or something like that? She recognizes that sometimes I just need a weekend to just blow off steam. And blowing off steam is surfing waves or climbing rocks.
MM: That’s a fun flip of I think for a lot of people, it's, you know, the work and activity builds up. And so then what they really need is a weekend to rest. And it sounds like you're really good at rest and you have great rhythms of rest. So you're more likely to have rest build up and you're like, I have energy to burn it.
DH: For sure. And I also want to recognize that, you know, I don't like the term warrior weekend, right? Because then it shows that, okay, you're working your ass off during a week and then you got to blow off steam in the weekends and it's also not healthy as well, right? So I still try to pepper in during the week if I can. You know, I got the one-wheel and so if it's nice out, you know, if I get an hour break, I'll go out and just skate around, you know, things like that. Or, excuse me, you know, I got to go pitch investors here in California on Wednesday. So I'm flying out tomorrow afternoon, I get there tomorrow night, pitch the investor Wednesday morning. If there's waves, me and my buddy are gonna surf for a little bit and then I'll go back to meetings, right? So I always make sure that every trip I take, if I could tack on another day or if I could tack on a day of adventure to get my fill, right? So that way it's like, okay, I'm working hard but I'm staying an extra day to go adventure. Yeah. You know, so that's something I've really caked in. I learned that probably over the last like five years.
MM: That speaks to me because I've made a lot of improvements to my health that I'm proud of in the last few years, but sleep is the last frontier of my health. I said that to my therapist. He's like, I like the language of last frontier because it implies you think you're still going to get there. Hey, there you go. I think that it's true. Very good. So yeah, it always just feels like there's not enough hours in the day to do it all.
DH: But you got kids. It does change a lot. I could give you some tips and tricks, but that's not for the kids. That's more so like how to get in the mindset. It changes things a lot. Yeah, but I couldn't even imagine.
MM: So some of that changes, you know, as kids get older, the physical demands of parenting go down a little, but then the emotional demands increase. For sure, for sure. So because it's never true rest, but it is just a different container in the framework. You're working on so many things. Can you just give me a summary of some of the things you have in motion right now of the businesses that you're working on, the projects you're excited about?
DH: Mainly, so I sold all my gyms a bunch of long time ago, I don't own any more gyms. I get asked all the time, but I don't want to deal with employees. It's too much to be able to do. So for the last six years, I've been full-time advising small business owners. I'm an exit advisor. So basically what I do is any business that's small businesses, you know, mom and pop shop to $20-25 million in revenue. What I do is I analyze the health of their business, how much of a well-oiled machine is their business, and then I'm able to go there and advise them and hold their hands to help them reach their goals, right? So if you're a $500,000 mom and pop shop and you want to grow to 1.5 mil, I give you that roadmap and I help you get there. If you are a $3 million marketing company and you want to sell your business, right, my specialty is to go there and point out, hey, your leadership styles are not that great or your sales can improve, your marketing needs to improve. So I give them all that there so that way when they go to sell, they get top dollar. Right. So that's what I've been doing. We launched Lendrose, which is a buy now, pay later for B2B service providers. We launched that in October, a co-founder for that, and that was out of a major pain point in the small business world. I think I mentioned you when we were chatting back and forth, like I was a keynote speaker in Orlando in December, and my keynote speech was about finding your personal ethos, finding your why. And I've known for a long time, my why is helping others. Everything I've ever done, all the volunteering that I've done, all the businesses that I've ever done, I was helping others, right, and having the parties and cooking and everything else, right? I feel fulfilled when I'm helping others. And seeing a ton of business owners, that just gets stuck. So from the advising standpoint, it helped business owners take it to the next level and put more money in their pockets and hire more people and improve the small business economy. With LendRows, we recognize a lot of business owners get stuff because they can't afford the services that they need to take their business to the next level. So what we do is we give them the option to financing to go hire that digital marketing company or a lead generating company to take them to the next level. There's a lot in the Buy Now, Pay Later space, but they're mostly B2C, like I bought my Peloton using a firm, you know, instead of paying, you know, whatever it was up front, paying monthly payments. There's not many that focus on business, and there's not really that they focus on small business. Our goal is to help the small business owner, the mom and pop shops, the ones, you know, that are trying to get to the next level. So those are my main two things. And then, you know, I've got some interest in some other companies here and there, like with TACFIT, you know, trying to help them expand and franchise out TACFIT gyms across the world. You know, so there's a bunch of little things here and there, but those LendRows and the advising is my main focus.
MM: Okay, so you've sold your gyms, but you mentioned the tack fit. Are you still doing any personal training as well?
DH: Now, I teach two classes a week just for a friend's company. She's got an online fitness company, and she asked me to have somebody with experience on her roster to help her grow. And she's been doing that since Covid started. And so I just stay on there just to keep my foot in the door. It's still nice for a 30-minute class on Wednesdays or a 45-minute class to still showcase my expertise. It's funny you mentioned that because I've got one client that's been trying to work. He's one of my advising clients, and he's trying to get back in shape. And so I've actually been giving him some nutrition advice and workout advice. And I'm like, ooh, I kind of missed this. So the entrepreneur brain comes off again, and I'm like, all right, can I mix in some sort of executive business and health coaching in one? Can I go ahead and target, let's say, 40-plus executives who are trying to have a work-life balance. They want to adventure, but they're basically teaching them how to be me. Can I teach that? And so here I am this year in 2025 trying to figure out, can I combine my two passions and keep one?
MM: Really a holistic picture of leadership is by taking care of your health and it has a direct impact on your work and your performance and the healthier you are in your body, the healthier you are in your mind, these things play well together.
DH: You know, I notice that if I am what I call inflow, right? If I'm not on point, if I'm traveling and I eat like crap and I come back, right, then everything else falls, right? It's a domino effect, but it's also the same as reverse, right? So for example, when I get back from California on Friday, it's like, okay, summer's around the corner, time to eat healthy, right, and I'm going to take more meetings from my treadmill so I can walk all day instead of sitting. That's probably the biggest killer for me is just sitting all day. And so I notice that if I can add in one healthy thing, domino effect's in a positive way, right? So trying to figure that piece out.
MM: More attainable to work in, the idea of if someone, you know, reworking or changing your approach to your health might feel really overwhelming or daunting, but seeing what's one, what's one change, one change you can make.
DH: So if I could teach others that, you know, I think that's, you know, I literally was having this idea to where I've recognized, especially in my family, right? The generational, I don't want to say generational curse, but like generational patterns. So where when you look at your family, you look at your family history, especially for us like poor Southside Chicagoans, you know, and my family, nobody in my family's like, I don't think anybody's on welfare anymore, but we all grew up on that, right? And seeing how, you know, my dad worked two full time jobs just to escape from that, you know, and I recognize the patterns of like, okay, here's what successful people do. But nobody's really talking about how they got there to step by step, you know, like all some of my books, I got Atomic Habits up here, that's an example of a book, hey, go read that book. And it helps. But there's not this, hey, get away from your generational gap. And let me teach you what I've learned, how to like, you know, it's a mindset piece. It's creating patterns and habits versus trying to do everything at once and crashing and burning.
MM: I appreciate your use of the word flow as well. To me, that is part of what is so magic about play, is entering into a flow state. How often do you experience that flow state in your work and play, where you are able to just be totally engrossed?
DH: With my advising, pretty regular, right? One thing that we advisors, especially with my colleagues, we really try to partner with the business owners. Like, we are an owner in the business, right? So I really allow myself to engulf myself into the problems and the success of the client side, right? So Jess, at the end of the day, sometime will ask, like, hey, how was your day? And if I had a client that lost a big contract or if something like that happened, I'm like, eh, kind of rough today, right? Or if a client grew their business to the next level, and then I'm like, ah, I'm on top of the world. So I experience flow state a lot when I'm in it with my clients. On a personal front, it ebbs and flows. It ebbs and flows with my discipline. And the consistency, right? We all know discipline, but then the consistency piece, right? So if I can get back into that, so again, when I get back from California, it's like, okay, start doing this for breakfast, and then everything else falls in place. Get my workouts back in, you know, because it's easy to just get busy. Especially when I'm redoing the basement, it's like, okay, I've got three hours before my next meeting. Should I go to the gym or should I go downstairs and try to finish this project I'm working on? Tough choice. Yeah, and so I've been doing the basement. Yeah. So to try to pepper in some of those small things and then I get in the flow. And then it's like, okay, my nutrition's on point. My sleep is on point. Work, everything just flows with each other. So, you know, not that this is like, hey, let's have David Hardin give you some advice. But if an advice, a piece of advice I could give is if you notice your whole ecosystem, your whole world, work, relationships, family, daily life, health and nutrition, everything involves if one is falling off and you just, you feel like, ah, just sometimes you get stuck. Focus on another one that you're already doing and try to get more flow from there. And then the flow spills over here. And for me, being a fitness guy my entire career, that's usually, I know if I'm feeling tired, if I'm feeling stressed, if I'm feeling stressed with my clients, I know that, hey, let me get in my rowing machine for 30 minutes in the morning. And that sets me up and then it flows into everything else. So that's one piece of advice. Look at everything and try to get one thing better and it'll spill over.
MM: And there's tons of brain science behind that. Seems evident that high performance is a value to you. It's something you exude, you seek out. You talked about discipline and the ways, the rhythms that you have of how you care for yourself and care for others. Who shaped those things in you? How did those things come to be? Did you have people who were mentors or leaders or nurturers in your life that helped bring some of those things out of you and teach you?
DH: It's a good question. First off, in the hard work and the discipline, my dad. My dad never adventured, didn't have the phone. He's retired and he's just now starting to do some of that stuff. But he worked, like I said, two full-time jobs to get out of poverty, right? To escape the generational, let's call it a curse, why not? So I definitely learned the hard work ethic from him. And the thing I could say I learned from him was the, if you gotta do something, do it right the first time. He was that guy to where I'm like, oh, I wanna go to my baseball game. And you're like, oh, you gotta finish your chores. And I go ahead and do something. And it was half-assed because I was trying to get it done quick. And then he would, nope, go do it right. And I'd be late for my baseball game, right? So it took, when you're a teenager, you never wanna do that stuff. And then it took years to finally recognize, you gotta do something, do it right. On the helping people, my dad definitely helped for sure, right? And I would give him credit there, but also like the talents or the traits that I got from my mom. My mom was a definition of, she would give your shirt off for back. Single mom, she struggled a lot. And every Thanksgiving meal, even if we didn't know if we were gonna have Thanksgiving because that's how broke she was at some times, right? It's how much she struggled. But she always made sure that like, the homeless guy down the block, we always had a plate for that guy, right? I remember we had somebody stay in her house. It was one of my mom's high school friends' daughters. My mom hasn't talked to this person in a long time and she was struggling. And so my mom had a room, like, yeah, sure. You could stay in the room in the apartment. So the definition, if you were to look at the definition of like helping others in the dictionary, should be a picture of my mom, right? So definitely from her. And then another story that I would love to share with you. And I think I mentioned this. We had, and I don't wanna go into too much details. We had a family member over who was in college and they were going on their own adventure. They were actually gonna go camping up in Pictured Rocks over Thanksgiving and the weather is pretty brutal. And so I was like, yeah, you can borrow my clothing and my gear and all my Arc’teryx stuff. And so he brought one of his friends over and his friends saw that I was an Arc’teryx athlete and seeing all of my surfboards in the garage and all my gear and he's looking and the kid looked at me like I was the coolest guy he's ever met. And what hit me was I remember being that kid. When I was younger and I got emotional afterwards because this hit me up top side to head. I remember as a kid, I met some famous people. I met some really rich people. You know, I remember the first time I saw Lamborghini, I met this guy and I was like 15 years old. It was like, wow, what a car. But I never looked at him like I wanna be you. But I do remember meeting people in their late 30s, 40s, even 50s who were surfers and climbers and adventurers. And I remember specifically meeting some of these people as a kid and I'm like, I wanna be you. When I get older, I wanted that, right? I don't need a giant house. I would love a giant garage. I don't need a giant house, right? But I wanna be able to take all the trips. I wanna be able to go do things. And so I always aspired to be that. And I think subconsciously I built that life, somewhat consciously. And when that kid left and I sat there for a moment and actually got a little teary-eyed and I was like, oh my gosh, Jess, goal achieved. I am that guy. And that kid just reminded me that I am that guy, right? So that's when I say who's inspired me. Yeah, definitely family members and friends here and there. But I think it's just taking and learning from others to be like, I want that in my life. I don't really want that. I want this, I want that, I want that. And yeah, that was a really cool reflection moment to say, because how many times in life can you actually say, having kids, I don't have kids, right? I would imagine when you had your kids or even today when you go home and look and be like, I got a pretty good life, right? It's cool to take a moment and look at the things that you actually have and be like, wow, awesome. And if you're somebody watching this and you don't have that, then my advice is go strive and go do that, right? Go figure out what do you want in life and go do it. But it's just really cool to, we're sitting here having this interview and I'm like, wow, this is an honor, this is really cool. But like, this is the life that I've built, you know? So that's really cool.
MM: I love that. It's so cool that you even, you know, when you were young. Yeah, yes, of course, a Lamborghini is cool, but it didn't inspire you in such a way of I want to be wealthy, or I want to have this particular material thing. But you were inspired by adventure and people who were getting out there and living life and things and then yeah, to be able to reach that point and say and recognize, wow, I'm able to offer this to other people, I can invite others in and others and it's a really, really cool pattern. You've done it all in so many ways, but what is some area of adventure or play that you haven't done yet that either you're intrigued by or maybe even intimidated by? Something you haven't done yet. Those are two questions. Yeah, they're two different things. Maybe they go hand in hand, maybe they don't.
DH: Yeah, the intrigued and the wanting to do more, I got a buddy who does a lot more dive trips and so I'd love to get more into diving. I dive, but not, I'm not traveling the world to dive. So that's one piece.
MM: When you say diving, do you mean Scuba?
DH: Scuba. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got another buddy who is trying to do the Seven Summits. I don't know if I really need to do the, I don't know if I ever need to do Everest. What are the Seven Summits? Mount Everest, Aconcagua down in South America. I think Rainier. This is a major peak. Yeah, the biggest peaks, right? The most adventurous, right? I would love to do Everest Base Camp, but I don't think I have the net that says, maybe if I do it once, I'll suddenly get addicted to it, right? So those are some more things I'd like to do. I've also recognized I've got too many hobbies. I can relate. For example, I, we were down in Cabo on a work retreat and they needed a fourth to go golfing. And believe it or not, I've never golfed. I've been to a driving range plenty of times, miniature golf I love, right? But I've never actually golfed. And they were like, eh, let's wait till another time. You're gonna slow us down. Because they're golfers. And our CEO of Cultivate Advisors, the advising company I've been working for, he's like, well, you know what, I'll give you, I'll take you out and I'll show you the ropes. Go buy a cheap pair of golf clubs and then we'll go out. And I recognize I'm not gonna do that for two reasons. One, I got enough hobbies, right? I got enough things to take up my time. And I'm happy with the things that I'm doing. And two, I'm not gonna buy cheap golf clubs. I like nice things, right? So I'm the type of guy, I'm like, I want the best golf clubs. Even if I'm only doing it a little bit, you know? So I do recognize that while there's other things I wanna do, I have to limit with what I do. Now on the question of what intimidates me, I don't know, I don't know, I really. Nothing. I'm sure there is. I mean.
MM: I mean, the fact that you listed climbing Everest as more in the intrigue category than intimidation category, I'm not sure what else there is left for you. Going to space, maybe?
DH: Yeah, right? I mean, there's some activities there that would be fun, but I would never do, like the flying wingsuit. Oh, yeah. Wow. That looks so cool, but apparently one in 10 people died. Oh, wow. I don't need to take risks like that. Even with surfing, I don't need to surf big waves. There's a bumper sticker that exists that's called, I love small waves. It's like, the only you get, the less risk you need to take. I don't know, both of my brothers got into racing cars, and I think I'm a pretty damn good driver. And so, that sounds like a lot of fun, but again, another hobby, another thing to focus on, more expensive, or more expenses, but I don't know, I think I'm pretty happy with the hobbies I have.
MM: You've got a rich wealth of things that you can do for yourself and in community and so on, yeah. So based on all of that, you talked a little bit about that definition of Stoke earlier. And what did you say, again, kind of that kid feeling, right, that?
DH: Yeah, just, feeling like a kid again, just enjoying life as a kid. I guess that's the best way to put it. Enjoying life from the perspective of a child. You're not worried about, and this is gonna sound really, really, I don't know if it's gonna sound arrogant or it's gonna sound weird to people, but I don't really have anxiety. I don't really know what anxiety really feels like, and I get nervous, I got a keynote speech coming up, but I don't get in my head that way. We all have negative talk, I have negative talk, absolutely. I get procrastination and perfectionism, I definitely am one to where I get started project and I get this from my dad. It's like trying to finish projects, but I do make sure I finish projects, but there's always something new coming up that I like to do, but I think trying to enjoy life, not to bring it up again, but the Disney trip really kinda connected, that's what it was. All the adventure I do, all the fun that I try to do, and you're at Disney and clearly it's designed to give the world's happiest place, right? And to be able to go in there and have that kid mindset, I think since coming back from Disney, I'm like, ah, that's what it is. That's why I enjoy surfing and rock climbing and all the other adventures because you get to just have fun. The weight of the world is not on your shoulders. While you're on a wave, you are just stoked. You are just, this is the greatest thing. In Hawaii, Surfin' Puerto Rico's fantastic. I'm literally trying to buy a vacation home down there, we've been going out there for 14 years. Surfin' California's great, Surfin' Florida, Surfin' all over is great, but in Hawaii, I'm on a wave and there's a beautiful mountain with a waterfall and I'm just, you're focusing on a wave and all of a sudden you're like, yeah, that wonderment, that's what I'm chasing.
MM: I love it. Cool. I mean that you basically have provided your definition of play there as well your definition of stoke. And that's a really cool framing of it is play equals stoke but is there anything else you want to add. How do you define play beyond that. I think it's different for everybody.
DH: I think, for me, that was my definition, but for you, it might be something else. For anybody else, it could be something. But whatever it is that just gets you to, I got a playlist on my Spotify called Happy. And they're songs that no matter what mood I'm in, if I play any of those songs, I get happy.
MM: What's one song on the playlist?
Oh, geez. Speaking to my mom, George Krantz, Din Dada. It's an old breakdancing song. That is probably, if anybody hears that song in my family, they think of me and my mom. But I mean, I've got so many different songs on there. I've got Come Stay Away from Styx on there. You hear that song, and it just kills you up. Yeah. And there's a bunch of different genres and everything else there, right? And so I bring that up as an analogy, right? If you could find something in your life that makes you happy, that silences everything, because I understand most people have anxiety, right? And if you could find something that silences that anxiety, even a little bit, that's the stoke. That's getting on the way to the flow, right? So if you could get there and then do more of it, you're going to have a more fulfilled life.
MM: David, thank you so much. I feel, I feel inspired. I feel just like, oh yes, I'm ready. Let's go. Let's go surf.
